Hated to see....

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Originally Posted by Unchained

Problem with that is that there has to be accountability for an action. You can't just say "I am straight now-please wipe the slate clean". Yeah the timing sucks,but it is what it is. In a perfect world,officials will consider what he has done as of late and give probation/go lean,but that also is what it is. I hear so much about how many Americans are locked up,but truth be told,we are missing many that should be. We paroled a killer a few months ago from my pod at work. This guy laughed at us as we took him to the gate. Weeks later he killed an innocent family whom he was jacking,and 3 more died because a judge went soft. There are two ways at looking at this folks

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We arent talking about murderers or violent offenders. No one ive ever spoken with advocates violent offenders being given extra leniency or anything.

It doesnt matter how much the judge wants to cut someone a break, a felony conviction is on their record. What kinda job can a person get with a felony conviction? No decent ones.
Theres a huge difference between simple accountability and common sense. A person like Cedric, a young person who is only 21-22 years old, is being punished for a mistake he made at least 2 years ago, a mistake that gave no other person any physical harm, and it doesnt matter what he has done since. How can a person in Ceds situation afford a great lawyer to get him a better deal? How can he possibly fight this? His name was in the newspaper with other federal indictments. No one around here forgets this kind of stuff.

It comes down to this; if Cedric gets a felony conviction on his record, his life will likely go down a dangerous path out of neccessity. No one wants to give a felon a job, and prison turns non-violent offenders into violent offenders to survive. This is not a little conviction, a misdemeanor that he can skate from and his life goes on, this is a FEDERAL indictment. His life will never be the same. How anyone can support this system I will never know.

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Originally Posted by Unchained

Problem with that is that there has to be accountability for an action. You can't just say "I am straight now-please wipe the slate clean". Yeah the timing sucks,but it is what it is. In a perfect world,officials will consider what he has done as of late and give probation/go lean,but that also is what it is. I hear so much about how many Americans are locked up,but truth be told,we are missing many that should be. We paroled a killer a few months ago from my pod at work. This guy laughed at us as we took him to the gate. Weeks later he killed an innocent family whom he was jacking,and 3 more died because a judge went soft. There are two ways at looking at this folks

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Since we (the U.S.) incarcerate about 500% more people than most other industrialized nations then it must mean one of two things. One, Americans are far, far more evil than other people or our system is far too harsh. I can't see any other options?

So which is it? American are the worst people on earth or is our system out of line?

If you have another option I'll listen, but I can already tell you that I can't see any other possible option.

PS....If my math is right we are incarcerating about 700 to 800% more people than communist China! We aren't talking about the U.S. locking up a few more people than other countries. ONE IN EVERY FOUR PRISONERS IN THE ENTIRE WORLD IS INCARCERATED HERE IN THE U.S.!!!! THAT DOESN"T SEEM LIKE A PROBLEM?!?!?!?!?!

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Originally Posted by 1inStripes

Or we are eliminating a big portion of unemployment percentage. Just depends upon how you want to look at it. There are plenty of messed up things about the court system. Both that lock people up for too long, let them out too early, or let them off scott free when they should be thrown under the jail.

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Can't draw unemployment unless you've held a job and then it's temporary. You think we aren't paying the way for all of those inmates? And to pay the salaries of many of those hired to guard them?

Problem is we are locking up too many of the wrong people. Also the system is completely bogus. In must (as in nearly every) cases money will get the offender freed. If they can't afford a really good defense then it's bye-bye.

For many years I've pointed out this one example:

Defense attorney Gerry Spence graduated law school in 1952 he practice law until 2008 (I believe). HE NEVER LOST A FELONY CASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No, not one, no, not even a little one, never, zip, zero, none.

He practiced law for 56 years UNDEFEATED!!!!!! He beat the U.S. government repeatedly, including in the Randy Weaver case.

On the other hand prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi tried 106 felony cases and lost only one.

Now, do you believe that every one of Spence's clients were innocent? Do you believe that all 105 of those people Bugliosi convicted were guilty? Of course they weren't, so the only obvious conclusion is that Spence help set many guilty people free and Bugiosi locked up some innocent ones.

what's the common thread? Highly skilled lawyers. What's not fair about that? Our system is suppose to be about justice, not abut who has a kick-ass lawyer.

UNDEFEATED IN 56 YEARS!!!!!!! GREAT LAWYER....LOUSY SYSTEM.

I am not referencing drawing a check, but truly unemployed people more than likely. Possibly ones that would not count against the figures you see printed all the time how high or low unemployment is, but we all know thats been a forged number since the 70s. The thing is, what do we change? The court system itself for trial is setup to the defendents aid, with the fact that things have to be proved above a reasonable doubt.

Reasonable doubt is a farce. So is innocent until proven guilty. They sound nice but neither is actually in practice in our court system today.

I've told is little anecdotal story before. Many years ago I was in the office of one of counties assistant prosecutors (he was a life-long friend RIP) his boss came in and started discussing a case right in front of me. It appeared that his boss had two primary suspects. The entire discussion concerned which one was more "CONVICTABLE". That was the word I heard over and over and over. Never once anything about which might possibly be guilty! Just which one they could more easily convict.

I'm not sure if you knew, but several years ago Amnesty International rated our court system at below the 50% level compared to other countries. Russia beat us in terms of offenders getting a fair trail. Our prison system scored even lower.

But, I guess I really didn't answer you question.

The answer is that we have way too many laws. Like the old saying, "the more laws, the less justice". We keep passing new laws that are unneeded and far too harsh. We then enforce the new law like a kid playing with a brand new toy and then we repeat the process over and over and over.

Amnesty International probably did not put a single country who uses the death penalty in the top 50% of court systems. Everything should be rainbows and marshmallows in this world to most of their members.

I agree that AI is very liberal but they have done some really great and dedicated work over the years. They are one org. I really respect despite having many differences of opinion with.

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Originally Posted by pvfan

This in a nutshell is the problem with our justice system. People view drugs the same way as killers. Legalize (some) drugs and end the insanity.

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I would love,LOVE to see pot legalized. I have seen alchohol do so much more damage to peeps and lives than weed. Here's the fair plan though: No dealer is any better than us folks who bust their humps and get taxed to death. Force them to receive merchant's licenses where they will shuck out the dough to operate-buying legit storefront property and advertising, going through inspections by the govt to ensure that the products are safe,force them to get to know the IRS like the rest of us and turn in W2s like we do. Burn their arses if these conditions are met,and watch Uncle Sammy rake in the ka-ching. Could you imagine the hit we could make on the deficit with weed money?:cool: After all,nobody rides for free

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Originally Posted by Unchained

I would love,LOVE to see pot legalized. I have seen alchohol do so much more damage to peeps and lives than weed. Here's the fair plan though: No dealer is any better than us folks who bust their humps and get taxed to death. Force them to receive merchant's licenses where they will shuck out the dough to operate-buying legit storefront property and advertising, going through inspections by the govt to ensure that the products are safe,force them to get to know the IRS like the rest of us and turn in W2s like we do. Burn their arses if these conditions are met,and watch Uncle Sammy rake in the ka-ching. Could you imagine the hit we could make on the deficit with weed money?:cool: After all,nobody rides for free

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Ive been preaching this for years, and Im glad to see more middle aged and respectable citizens who work good jobs supporting a system like above. It makes so much sense, to legalize and tax it, I guess thats why the gov't refuses to even seriously debate the issue.